The Battle for Connecticut’s Youth
February 15th, 2008 by Peter
The targeting of Connecticut’s youth has become a major focus of our state’s pro same-sex “marriage” activists. The Family Institute of Connecticut is determined to see that our youth are served-and not confused-by our state’s educational institutions. But to take up that fight we must first understand the great influence our opponents already wield.
Feb. 13th, for instance, was “Youth for Marriage Equality Day.” According to Love Makes a Family, “students around Connecticut will once again take action” to promote same-sex “marriage.” Last year on this day students supposedly delivered to Gov. Rell 2,000 postcards asking her to re-define marriage. This year Love Makes a Family asked “gay-straight alliances in Connecticut” to contact them to receive pro same-sex “marriage” kits with “legislative action cards” that will again be sent to the governor.
“Gay-straight alliance” clubs are oftentimes at the heart of the anti-family infiltration of Connecticut’s public schools. As we see above, these student groups work closely with pro same-sex “marriage” activists–and they are supervised by school personnel who support that agenda.
One of the biggest annual events organized by these student groups is the “Day of Silence”–an attempt to further politicize our youth and to bring about the quasi-criminalization of traditional pro-family viewpoints. Last year–according to an April 17th Hartford Courant article–60 Connecticut schools registered for the Day of Silence. “Organizers say they aim to catch young minds and hearts at this early, delicate stage of the game,” reported the Courant.
Catching young minds at an early, delicate stage–in order to confuse them about matters of sexual identity–is indeed the long term strategy of our opponents. They have targeted the youth because they know that most of the public opposes same-sex “marriage.” Their only chance at a democratic victory is to “catch young minds” early and confuse them with anti-family propaganda.
Readers of FIC’s e-mail alerts know that we are forming a new pro-family youth wing that has already begun holding meetings. I have recently been the guest speaker at gatherings of Teenpac, Generation Joshua, Theology for Teens and various campus ministry groups and out of those gatherings has come the start of an alternative pro-family voice for our state’s youth.
If you are a high school or college student in Connecticut who shares our values and would like to be a part of the new FIC Youth Wing call our office at 860-548-0066.
What two consenting adults do behind doors, I may not necessarily approve of, but so long as the keep it to themselves, that’s pretty much their own business as far as I’m concerned.
But this indoctrination of young, impressionable kids to homosexuality infuriates me! It is sheer evil!
They’re not even of legal adult age. What’s next? A bartending course in the schools?
It’s a shame the cowardly American Psychiatric Association allowed itself to be bullied by the gay activists in 1973 and capitulated to remove homosexuality as a clinical deviancy from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. Then some of these so-called “educators” could be rightfully arrested for child endangerment.
Does anyone teach these kids about the long-term effects and potential maladies on the body from sodomy? Or the emotional maladies and mental health diseases often attributed to the homosexual lifestyle? Not to mention the danger of promiscuous sex, and especially among gay men? I don’t dare even ask about the risk to the eternal salvation of their souls. Or are all those trite details censored as part of this trendy and politically correct “moment of silence”?
Reason # 63,428 why public schools can no longer be trusted and why kids should be enrolled in private schools or home-schooled. The inmates are now running the asylums! Pretty soon we will need “No school zones” to protect our kids in their own neighborhoods!
Suddenly, Mark Twain and Jesus both suddenly come to mind:
“God made the idiot for practice. And then He made the school board.
(Mark Twain)
“…but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and be drowned in the depth of the sea.”
(Matthew: 18, 6).
Doug
Ok Doug, to quote you quoting Reagan quoting a million other people who used that phrase before him “There you go again”. Rasing the specter of homosexual health issues that are known only to the right wing.
“Does anyone teach these kids about the long-term effects and potential maladies on the body from sodomy? ”
I imagine there would be such disasterous results from demanding to rape angels but that has nothing to do with homosexuality or the issue at hand.
“Or the emotional maladies and mental health diseases often attributed to the homosexual lifestyle?”
The higher rates of depression, substance abuse etc. in the LGBT communities have never been and likely never will be identified as an innate trait of homosexuals, whatever their lifestyle is. The factors in the development of these issues are varied and certainly can in part be attributed to the reality of growing up in a hostile society. I’ll not waste time on elaborating since I’ll just be accused of trying to portray us as victims.
“Not to mention the danger of promiscuous sex, and especially among gay men?”
Among some gay men, not all, not even most but I know it helps in the crusade if we are demonized as much as possible. Teaching the dangers of promiscuous sex of any form should absolutely be part of the educational process but I don’t think it’s us who attempts to shut down any form of sex education is it?
The danger to one’s eternal soul is a religious concept and has no place in schools, except of course the ones where you advocate sending your children to be indoctrinated in what you consider proper. But more on that later.
The Day of Silence is not political, it is not politically correct though I perhaps could agree it is a little trendy. But, no one is forced to participate or actually learn anything from it. If your children have been properly brainwashed into believing your opinions about LGBT folks they should certainly be immune to any attempts to portray us as productive and even important members of the human community. Oh, and the Day of Silence has nothing at all to do about what two people do in the privacy of their own home. It’s sad that the conservative mind immediately thinks of sex when homosexaulity is mentioned. Perhaps that says more about you than it does us. Sex is only one aspect of our lives which I believe it is with most heterosexuals, at least the ones I have known. It no more defines our lives that it does yours. I realize that admitting that will do vast damage to your crusade so I don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.
About pulling your children out of public schools. Do that and you lose any chance of impacting society with the teaching of Christ. Standing on the corner with a megaphone or handing out pieces of paper, even New Testaments it not going to do it. Political movements no matter how well financed or how highly connected in the gov’t are not going to do it. Modeling what you consider proper Christian behaviour is what raises interest. And I don’t mean running around with anti-gay t-shirts, though if one chooses to wear one they should be able too. The fact that that also destroys any Christian witness is beside the point I guess. Students in high school and college can only benefit from mingling with those of differing beliefs. If what they are being taught in their homes and schools is so weak that hearing a different viewpoint is damaging, or that having the student in the next desk remain silent for a day will cause them to want to experiment with homosexuality, the perhaps there is something wrong with what you are teaching. If the fact that one has to be civilized to people they don’t agree with is dangerous to your beliefs then you should take a hard look at what you believe. It is really from God?
Scream and shout and spread false information all you want, pull your kids from the schools if you want but realize that only highlights the flaws in your crusade. It only shows people that it is not Christ or the family that you are fighting for. And if that’s what it takes for the rest of society to stop falling for what you preach then please, continue with it.
But if you want to truly change society, if you truly want to represent Jesus Christ on this planet then stop this nonsense and focus on the truly devastating problems. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem If you take a look at some of the African countries, some of the Middle Eastern countries, and some of the Eastern European countries without seeing the negative results of anti-gay histeria then perhaps it’s too late.
David,
I won’t spend a lot of time responding to your last post, because someone who so defies so much religion and so much science to so desperately keep his perception of his denial plausible is not someone who is going to change his mind. But some of your comments are so off the wall they scream out to be addressed. And when I see kids getting hurt, my blood boils!
I’ll spare the readers the graphics, but medical science has well documented the maladies and deformities attributed to long-term sodomy. I seriously doubt you would even attempt to plug a three-pronged plug into a two pronged wall outlet, yet you defend sodomy like it is as natural as breathing. You are in denial. Don’t (you know what) on my leg and try to tell me it’s raining!
The sources from doctors, (sorry, they didn’t define their political ideology) do tie several emotional dysfunctions to homosexuality, as either leading people to homosexuality and/or being exacerbated by homosexuality. Your “Reagan” remarks aside, David, no, I really and truly don’t care what you and another consenting adult do behind closed doors. You can give each other AIDS through sodomy, lung cancer from smoking cigarettes, or sclerosis of the liver from alcohol abuse. Legally, although, not morally, you have a so-called right to endanger your life as foolishly and as often as you like. But when this sewage gets pawned to kids, I have a big problem with it. Don’t try your sales pitch to me about Jesus. What you consider mother’s milk is rancid poison. It’s a mental illness and an intrinsic evil, not a “choice” or an “alternative lifestyle.” Like drug addicts, gays need compassion and treatment, not encouragement and special rights. But those who promote it, and especially to kids, in my book, are no better than the corner drug dealer.
I read the paragraph regarding “raping angels” several times. It still makes no sense to me whatsoever. Either there is a typo in there somewhere, or you are implying something so insidious that it’s probably is not worth reading anyway.
Did you happen to see Osama bin Laden in that cave you were in? If so, please notify the Department of Homeland Security. They would like to have a chat with him. David, where have you been? The facts about gay promiscuous men as being worse in their promiscuity and spreading AIDS and other STDs has been around for a while. But of course, you disagree, so it comes “from the right.” Ah, I see, Hillary’s “vast right wing conspiracy strikes again.”
Your precious day of silence is politically correct crap, in plain English. No, I know full well that it involves more than just gay sex. In the post about transgenders, you actually made some sense when you said that everyone deserves equality, but nobody should have “special rights.” What do you think the day of silence does? It singles out gays who are picked on by their peers. Hey, David, what about nerdy kids, fat kids, kids with zits, kids with glasses, etc… ? Where is the day of silence for them? NO KID should ever be bullied. What makes gays so superior? It’s all about gays. Once again, and as usual. You people keep crying about equality, but then keep going out of your way to be treated special from everyone else. First of all, maybe if we treated some of those gay kids you are supposedly so concerned about they would have fewer problems in school. Second, your warm and fuzzy, touchy feely, “oh woe is me because I’m gay” day makes a special victim class out of gay kids. And since then, we now have “hate crimes,” that are redundant laws, already covered in the penal code, that provide stiffer sentences for committing the same crimes, but on the new trendy special victim class, “gays.” “Equality,” David? This day was inspired by the Matthew Sheperd story. Matthew Sheperd’s death was an atrocity, but one version of the story is that he sought gay sex from the wrong two strangers in a bar. The more innocuous version is that he simply asked for a ride home. In either case, there is another message there, maybe two, that get ignored: 1.) Don’t go looking for sex (with any stranger of either sex) in a bar, and 2.) Don’t take rides from strangers. Before you twist what I am saying, let me first state for the record that which is plainly obvious: Sheperd did not deserve what happened to him from those two cretins, but nevertheless, his inane and risky behavior was utterly reckless and foolish and he brought it on himself, but Heaven forbid your side ever even mention that fact. Instead, your side took an imbecile and turned him into a martyr. Why? Simply because it promotes your so-called cause. The day of silence has nothing to do with helping kids and everything to do with promoting the gay agenda, because depravity, like misery, loves company.
“Ant-gay hysteria in Europe and Africa”? Are you kidding me? Getting back to gay promiscuous men, it is tenfold worse in Europe, especially in Scandinavia, hence the high rates of broken same sex marriages and ABANDONED children because the MEN are nothing but a bunch hedonists. I wouldn’t even say “animals” because even they act with more decorum and protect their young better. And Africa? Do you not read the newspapers? That is why our President is there right now, violating our Constitution and usurping US revenue to foreign countries in Africa to supposedly stop AIDS, a disease that can be cured with ABSTINENCE, and not money. Money only gives excuses for the actual cause of AIDS to continue, which is why that dopey, liberal globalist and your side love the idea so much; more fuel for your deplorable, physically gratifying, albeit, self-destructing and engulfing fire. Africa has the highest rate of AIDS in the world. Hey, David, newsflash, pal, some of that “hysteria” in Europe and Africa is well warranted!
Nice try, David.
When you and your cronies all come out of your sycophant-like denial and take a cold shower and actually and genuinely think a little more about the welfare of our kids and less about your own dysfunctional sexual urges and selfish gratification for at least five minutes, come back and preach to me then about Jesus again.
I don’t need Ronald Reagan, or Jesus Christ, for that matter, to show me the difference between right and wrong (regardless of “right and left”) and fact and fiction. Right and wrong, David, is not “complex,” “complicated,” nor does it have “gray area,” or “nuances,” or any of the other buzz words, excuses or drivel that you and other moral relativists try to so often cloud for that which is by no means rocket science.
David, I won’t defend your, or any other consenting adult’s so-called right to endanger your own life, but I won’t impede it, either. But I will be damned if I stand by and let you or anyone else harm young, impressionable kids because of your trendy but disordered cause celebre,” with its false, DANGEROUS, and grossly soiled sense of self-defined nobility.
Doug
Doug,
Speaking of kids getting hurt, are you troubled by the negative messages that gay kids get from families, society, some religions and our government that they are somehow less worthy of equal rights under the law than heterosexual people? My children participated in the day of silence to show respect and solidarity for gay kids who are daily subjected to ignorant prejudice, bigotry and hatred. Read the US Constitution. Oh, and in case you think that being gay is a choice, why don’t you ask all of your gay friends about that?
Randy
The term sodomy is a word created to falsly refer to the story of Sodom. When read with a mind not seething with pure unadulterated hate for all things LGBT a person can clearly see that the story has nothing to do with homosexuality. But I expect that is way over your head. You have again responded to many things I simply never said. Once you get ranting you throw everything but the kitchen sink in to justify your point. Fine, have at it. But again you prove that you have not even a rudimentary understanding of our lives and have even less of an interest in learning.
AIDS in Africa is a heterosexual disease, sad that you and the people who fill your head with lies are unable to see that. There are leaders there advocating everything from outlawing us to sending as all to an island to die. Seems you would get along great with them, maybe even applaud. The fact is even if you did manage to kill or isolate all of us more would be born and grow up gay. And unfortuneately they will grow up in a world run by hate.
What the children of this world need to be protected from is people like you who want to create another generation of fact twisting, people hating, religious zealots whose “faith” is based competely on the fear of anything outside of their tiny little worlds. You wonder why at times you have been compared to the Islamic extremists? Read your note above, that is more venom than I have seen packed in few paragraphs in a long time. You, sir are one tiny step away from violence against others and it’s too bad because it’s all fueled by toxic right wing lies and exagerations about LGBT people. That is the true sickness and disorder represented on this board. You are obssesed with sex, so much so that you cannot fathom any one else isn’t afflicted the same way.
Every word you have said in this post about the supposed ills of homosexuality is only proven in the minds of those who write for WorldNet Daily or some other lie machine created by the right. Try some reality, try some truth, it could make a difference.
You did say something right “I don’t care”, that is correct there isn’t a cell in your body that cares a bit about anyone or anything but your twisted crusade. That would be just fine if it only impacted you but others are harmed and killed by the ideas that you willingly perpetrate.
My life is not trendy, my life is not politcally correct, and my life is not dangerous to anyone including myself (well except that I’m significantly overweight). Must be cause I’m a twisted person doomed for hell eh? There are certainly ways that I can change my life, to be freed from sin, but my sexual orientations is not one of them. Loving another person, wanting to form a covenant relationship with them and wanting to have a legal way to protect their future, is NOT a sin, it is NOT a threat to society, it is NOT destructive. Wanting to destroy another person’s life by enshrining your hate and fear in laws IS a sin, it IS a threat to society and it IS destructive. As I said above, please keep this up, it’s our best weapon.
Hypocrisy is your strongest suit Doug, congragulations your church has taught you well. I have seen a lot in my life that I consider disgusting and self-destructive, and I would love to see LGBT people grow out of it. But you want to keep us there, it justifies the ugliness that you so freely hurl at us. But the most disgusting thing I have ever seen is unbridled hate thinly disguised as religion and love. That is the true danger to the survival of our species not some hallucinated nonsense about homosexuality.
So, it may not have been your goal but you have certainly convinced me of one thing. Attempting to dialogue with “conservative christians” is futile, so I’ll stop. Wallow in your hate, ultimately the only one it hurts is yourself. Perhaps this won’t make it through but I’m sick of attempting to be polite to a person who does not hesitate to vomit his bile all over me in a post.
Peter, thank you for all the work you do on this blog. I don’t agree with much you stand for but I give you credit for working hard for what you believe.
Doug, one last note. Buy a new Bible, maybe a real one this time. You made a statement in another thread which was total false. There are only 7 verses in the Bible that even remotely refer to some homosexual acts. Some of you have chosen to ignore everything else in all the rest of the scriptures. You accuse me of picking and choosing? Talk about self-deluded. Be well Doug, it’s not you I hate only your behavior 🙂
Once again we have David returning to the same old tired argument, now many times refuted, in which he falsely asserts that disagreement with LGBT activism is tantamount to advocating for violence. It’s like a bad penny that is sure enough to come back again. Yet, as Joseph Goebbels said, “Repeat a lie a thousand times, and it becomes the truth.” Judging from his continual repetition of this point, he’s well on his may to reaching that mark.
Could we possibly discuss the public policy impact in a more thoughtful way, without constantly pouring more kerosene on the fire?
David,
There you go again, bringing up death, murder, mayhem, conspiracy, your usual paranoia and gross exaggerations and falsely accusing me of gloating, supporting, etc..about somebody in Africa hypothetically killing you and all/or gays. As usual, if someone disagrees with you, they must be a gay-bashing, homicidal fanatic from the “vast right wing conspiracy.” As usual, your words, David, not mine.
That is what I mean, David.
You’re off the deep end again, pal. Take the tin foil out of your hat and take a deep breath. Everything will be OK.
I won’t waste my time with your trademark outlandish, drivel. It is now getting old and tedious, and frankly, I resent it.
OK, now go ahead, follow your usual pattern and deny what you said and tell me I took it out of context.
I may be back if or when you can converse and debate like an adult.
We have had this conversation before, haven’t we? I honestly don’t know what your pronlem is.
If it is attention you so desperately crave, find it from somebody else. That’s noy why I’m here.
Otherwise, I hope you feel better soon.
Doug
Randy,
Did I say being gay is necessarily a choice?
As for your kids participating in the day of silence to show their respect, that’s fine. Good for them. I have no problem with that per se.
Again, my problem is that the day of silence singles out gay kids as a special victim class when lots of other groups of kids also get bullied, and yet they are ignored. Equality is a two way street. The day of silence only addresses gay kids. It has less to do about harassing kids and more to do with subtly and incrementally trying to mainstream and sanction homosexuality. But kids don’t think of that. Why? Because they’re still kids. They are vulnerable in that sense. They have not yet grown enough, matured enough, learned enough, or had sufficient life experiences to adequately formulate such decisions. There is a reason why our country has a legal age of majority. And that is why I so reject adults using and manipulating them like captive lab rats to forward their agenda. Furthermore, social engineering for your kids is your job as a parent, and not up to some education bureaucrat.
I am also not quite sure what you mean by negative messages.
If you mean any kind of persecution, harassment, etc.., of course I oppose that behavior. Nobody should ever have to be subject to that indignity.
There is a difference, however, between tolerating a person, child, or adult, because he or she is somehow, in any way, different, versus condoning a negative behavior.
Should gays be tolerated and respected with courtesy and dignity, like any other person? Absolutely.
Should homosexuality be ignored, in the sense of not being treated and instead, actually promoted? Absolutely not.
And regarding your mention of religion, most of the mainstream religions that I am aware of decry the behavior and not the individual, and they are correct in doing so.
As for the Constitution, I am quite well aware of what it says. As a matter of fact, I actually peruse it rather often.
Following the angle I think you’re suggesting, it doesn’t mention incest or legalizing marriage for siblings either.
For that matter, if less of this irrelevant social engineering and duplicitous politicall correct fluff was forwarded by education bureaucrats with an agenda to forward during the already very limited and precious time of an average school day, perhaps your kids might otherwise be learning more about the Constitution as well.
Doug
David,
You write that “Sex is only one aspect of our lives … It no more defines our lives that it does yours.”
Then WHY do you and the other activist homosexuals insist on **shoving the fact of your sexuality in the faces** of the rest of society, including youth and the very young?
I’ve even read of instances in which someone introducing him or herself says “Hi, I’m Jim Jones and **I’m gay.**” (I’m not speaking of situations in gay bars, support groups, etc.)
This happened to a former Presidential speech writer, and I’m sure many others, in large social gatherings where most people in attendance would NOT be “gay.”
Tricia,
I can’t imagine why anyone would introduce themselves the way you describe, I wouldn’t. But, what you call shoving, I call simply trying to live. If you worked in an office and put a picture of your husband on your desk are you saying “this is the person I have sex with”? Well neither would I be. If you held your husband’s and or gave him a kiss in public are you saying “we have sex”? When you decided to marry and got your license did it say on it “these two people are going to have sex”? Then why if I did the same thing would you say I’m shoving my sexuality in societies face. When a teacher gets married, or pregnant is it hidden from the students because it might involve sex? So why if a teacher allows the kids to know he/she loves a person of the same sex does it all of a sudden become shoving? Allowing people to see our relationships and our families, especially the younger ones, is one way to help insure that those who are struggling with their own feelings can realize they are not alone, many of us have been there and live complete happy lives. Do this and within a generation watch the promiscuity and substance abuse that is prevalant in some segments of LGBT culture, greatly lessen. I know you consider that attempting to normalize homosexuality, I call it saving lives and helping those in pain. Doug keeps mentioning we need treatment, but doesn’t mention that would be. In the old days they used electroshock therapy, it didn’t work anymore than the methods that are used now. And I’m not denying there are those who change the path of their lives. But it is their decision and it can’t be forced on anyone.
“As usual, your words, David, not mine.”
Um, no Doug those are your words. The violence I describe in parts of the world is not hypothetical, it is real and it is frequent. And the “church” doesn’t lift a finger in protest. A young boy here in the states was just shot in the back of the head by a classmate. Why? Because he was feminine and dressed different. I don’t have to create stories or exagerrate it is all very very real. You can deny it or try to minimize it but that doesn’t help those who are hurt by it. And it was your words, Doug, not mine that, after I brought up the violence against us in parts of the world, say that perhaps some of it is justified.
No Doug, I don’t believe there is a vast right wing force against us. It is a small but vocal minority that refuses to acknowledge the truth about LGBT people and continues to spread the nonsense that you gave perfect examples of in post number 3.
Doug you want “adult” conversation, then stop with posts like number 3 which are simply full barreled, hostile attacks on the lives of gay men in particular. It is not thoughtful, it is insulting post written with the express purpose of demeaning and demonizing LGBT lives. It is not an arguement against activismi it is a condemnation of a people by and large innocent of the charges being hurled. If you want to misrepresent us fine, but if you expect to do so without getting a response, dream on. And yeah, I was angry – I don’t react well to being lied about. Sorry, If I was sticking around I would try to do better but I see little reason to keep posting. Plus, having just learned in the last 24 hours that the whole department I work in is being outsourced, I will perhaps need to be focusing elsewhere!
Dave, I was referring to specific instances and yes in these cases the opposition to LGBT people (not activism) is violent, vicious and sometimes deadly. I agree it is tiresome, but it’s the truth. I have never said that all those opposed to us are violent or looking to kill. But only eyes that are completely closed to reality can call what I said a lie.
The day you folks remember that this isn’t about activism or politics, it is about people’s ability to live their lives freely and to help ensure that future generations do not have to go though what so many of us have. That is not “woe is me”, it’s the truth. Homosexuals have been/are/and will be important, productive and beneficial members of society and true to their sexual orientation. What you do to us you are doing to society as a whole. Be careful, because every single law, every single change to a constitution that is written against us can just as easily be written against another group who finds themselves in societies crosshairs. Learn from history.
Later folks, truly I wish you all the best. Dave (I only used David to remain distinct from Dave, which in retrospect was hardly necessary)
David,
As usual, you contorted my words from decrying behavior to your twisted interpretation of me decrying people. And when did I say that treatment should be “forced” onto homosexuals? And did I advocate for electric shock treatment, David? Actually, had you simply asked, instead of accuse me, you would have known that I had something a little less radical in mind; perhaps you’ve heard of it: it’s called “counseling.” But I know, why dabble with mundane give and take conversation when fiery, knee-jerk, quintessential “Davidesque” hyperbole is so much more fun for cheap, shallow shock value, and devoid of pesky common sense and decorum, right?
And at what point did I “lie” about you?
Same, David; same tactics. You’re hilarious. The more I accuse you of this and cite how regularly you do it, the more you just confirm what I am saying. And that’s why I won’t waste any more of my time, fueling this game that you perpetuate.
Beyond that, I said my piece and I stand by what I wrote. I don’t like seeing adults hurting kids, not for your agenda or any other reason, and I couldn’t care less how politically incorrect you or anyone else finds it. You’re angry? I’m angry, too, David. OK, I was blunt, I don’t deny that, but unlike many people today who trip over their tongues trying not to give offense (because so many people today seek to find offense where it doesn’t even exist) and simultaneously missing the truth, you still got the message clearly, didn’t you? You and I have corresponded on this blog now long enough where you know that I don’t sugarcoat anything. That’s me. I am what I am. You might not always like what I have to say, but you’ll always know what I said. A school nurse can’t even give a sick kid an aspirin without parental consent, but we’re all supposed to tiptoe on egg shells and hold our breath because Heaven forbid we voice even a modicum of dissent with the untouchable gay agenda, otherwise, we’re “homophobes.” Keep your sex life and political causes to yourself and let kids be kids before becoming adults…..or anything else. Do you think I’m picking on gays, David? I have news for you, I’m also not real crazy about teachers teaching boys how to apply condoms to cucumbers, either, or schools giving boys or girls birth control devices, regardless of who they may be having sexual relations with! We all keep dwelling on this “it takes a village” crap so that teachers become parents with all the power, parents become dinosaurs with no rights, and our vulnerable kids only now learn about one and a half of the “3 R’s,” and then we wonder with fixed gazes, open mouths and drool dripping off our chins why the Germans and the Japanese are kicking our butts in technology and trade. Because they are still learning about advanced math, science, and maybe, just maybe, their own national history minus the revisionism, while our kids are playing with condoms and garden vegetables, and getting indoctrinated into homosexuality, multiculturism and global warming and what other cause celebre’ seems trendy in any given week. And no, I am not belittling the lives of gay people when I say “trendy,” but that is what your cause has become and how it is being handled within the forces of current political correctness. There is only so much time in a school day. Our public schoolkids of today may never offend anybody, but they can’t compete and often can’t cope when they graduate either. And people wonder why homeschooling is becoming so much more popular and why homeschooled kids do so much better scholastically.
And yes, Tricia is right, lots of gays I have also known also wear their sexuality on their sleeve and flaunt it and push it to others, OK, fine, maybe not you, but plenty of gays do, and it’s rude, inappropriate and obnoxious. What gays do in their bedrooms is their own business, and yes, that applies to straights as well. Maybe not you, but too many other people in the gay community propagandize that tolerance is synonymous with conversion. You always dwell on the fringe; the true gay-bashers, the violent, evil cretins that most of us reject as much as you do. I tolerate everybody; gays included, unless somebody proves to me that he or she shouldn’t be tolerated, but that doesn’t mean that I have to tolerate their rude, pushy behavior, either.
And I don’t, and I won’t.
And your personal hypothesis that legalizing SSM will lessen substance abuse/addiction within the gay community is just more harmful folly, based on naiveté, wishful thinking and denial.
As for everything else you said, I won’t even bother. Like I said, we’ve been down this same road too many times before. It’s just not worth my time.
OK, now I’m done.
Our disagreement on this subject aside, I am genuinely sorry for your recent personal troubles. Having been laid from a job before, I know all too well how devastating that is.
I wish you well, David. I hope that somehow your current predicament is soon fully resolved. Meanwhile, you will be in my prayers.
Take care.
Doug
David,
I wish only good things for you, especially as to your future employment. (Hey–maybe you could get that job with LMF that Tim Gill’s foundation is paying for! 😉 ) And I post this NOT to be confrontational. I do respect you for being one of the MINORITY of gay men who is NOT “promiscuous.”
I imagine that your motives are good, David–but you have become so **obsessed** with this issue that you are wearing blinders as to FACTS, which ARE “stubborn things,” no matter how much you want to DENY them.
You have become a navel-gazer who cannot see the forest for the trees. You *choose* to focus on the *relatively few* (compared to the millions and millions of Americans who view homosexual “behavior” as *wrong*) incidents of rabid hatred for and violence against gays. David, your posts portray you as believing that *everyone* who objects to the ‘gay agenda’ (of SSM and “normaliz[ing] homosexuality” by judicial fiat, through legislation, and especially in the public schools) *hates* and is guilty of *attacks* (verbal, if not physical) upon homosexuals.
If I am misreading you, David, PLEASE correct me–although I do truly hope that you have gone on to focus on the OTHER things in your life, instead of on this blog and stories of violence upon gays which contribute to your navel-gazing.
If you are still reading this thread, I’m sure you object to my characterization of your being self-obsessed and ignoring FACTS–but imo it is warranted. Following, I will cite a few examples which portray your obsessing and ignoring facts.
1. In post #5 you wrote: “The term sodomy is a word created to falsly refer to the story of Sodom…the story has nothing to do with homosexuality.”
It is very CLEAR in Genesis 19:1-11 that “the men of Sodom” were surrounding Lot’s house and demanding that he “bring the [two angels] out unto us, that we may know them.” The footnote in my King James Bible, to verse 5, reads “‘Know’ is used both in Hebrew and English in this kind of context as a euphemism in place of a sexual word.”
Lot also says in verse 7: “I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.” It is obvious that these men were seeking not to *speak* with the “angels,” but rather to abuse/assault them, or Lot would not have made the “do not so wickedly” plea. The people of Sodom probably were guilty of many other sins as well, but “the story of Sodom….has [MUCH] to do with homosexual” ACTS.
2. In your post #10, David, you wrote of and promoted “attempting to normalize homosexuality,” saying
“Do this and within a generation watch the promiscuity and substance abuse that is prevalant in some segments of LGBT culture, greatly lessen.”
That is so naive, David, to say the least. First of all, you seek to *minimize* “the promiscuity” by ignoring the fact that it is the *normal* MO of the MAJORITY of gay men, as all statistical studies have amply proven.
You, David, are unfortunately part of a very small minority of homosexual men who are NOT “promiscuous.” The scientifically conducted research PROVES that even among gay men with a “long-term partner,” their “relationship” (whether called “marriage,” “civil union,” “domestic partnership” or whatever) allows for “sexual activity with other partners.” (See narth.com if you don’t believe me.) Apparently these gay men do not *define* that as “promiscuity.”
The statements of the infamous ex-governor of New Jersey notwithstanding, most men engaging in promiscuous gay sex do it NOT because society frowns upon homosexuality, but because sexual activity **unrestrained** by self-discipline, even if NOT “deviant,” is HIGHLY ADDICTIVE. Thus the problem of promiscuity among some heterosexual married men, as well.
3. You stated: “Homosexuals have been/are/and will be important, productive and beneficial members of society and true to their sexual orientation.”
If you were not OBSESSED with this subject, you would certainly have felt no need to include the words “true to their sexual orientation” in that sentence. I rest my case.
4. You ended your post #10 with “Dave (I only used David to remain distinct from Dave, which in retrospect was hardly necessary)”
Again, if you weren’t so engaged in navel-gazing, David, you would realize–or care–that OTHER PEOPLE also read this blog; and THEY would be extremely confused by two people posting with the same screen name.
Hi All,
I didn’t mean to write a snarky first post here, but I happened across this blog and Doug’s comments kind of struck a nerve, so I felt compelled to write something. I am admittedly for equality in human rights and have the perspective that homosexual orientation is a natural and inherent blessing from God for a small minority of people, but I like to dialogue with those of differing views. I try to be respectful, but I can’t promise not be a little sarcastic while responding in kind.
It seems obvious to me that, for a lot of gay kids, being openly gay in school invites a fair amount of ridicule, abuse and shunning by fellow students and even teachers and administrators. In a case at our local school, a vice principal went on a religious rant condemning a gay girl, and tried to sanction another student who stood up for her. Any situation where a class of people is singled out calls for actions to dispel the pervasive ignorance and bigotry in the population. I don’t see how doing this is stepping on anyone’s toes. Can somebody give a specific example of how this would?
I am struck by several derisive comments in this thread. Peter, I think you should put the word “family” in quotes in the way you are using it, because a family is not defined by a 1950’s sitcom. Policies that do not allow committed same-sex life partners the benefits heterosexual married couples have, such as hospital visitation, inheritance, pension and social security, are anti-family. period. I know many families that have gay/bi people in them, and for anyone to imply that they are not families is a derogatory insult.
Doug, I’ve never heard anything that sounds like “actively promoting homosexuality” in the schools. I think what you are talking about is active promotion of the acceptance of homosexuality, a concept with which I completely agree, although any actions further than demonstrating intolerance of homophobic bigotry should be student-driven (with school support) so as not to do anything that would actually make the group to feel even more uncomfortable than they already are. In any event, I think most high schoolers are well acquainted with the concept of physical attraction and would not be harmed by these types of discussions.
It seems that among the “pro-family” crowd there is the belief that unless there is pressure from society to be straight, people would naturally gravitate to having sex with the same sex. I’ve never heard of any evidence for this, but there is certainly tons of pressure not to be gay.
It’s fallacious to label gays as promiscuous, hedonistic irresponsible drug abusers. Doug, do you have any clue that your “sources” are biased unscientific propaganda that is regularly circulated as part of a fundamentalist political agenda? You loose credibility when you make generalizations about a group that don’t even come close to applying to the majority. How many gay people you know well enough to be invited into there homes? Of those, what percentage have medical problems due to sex, are drug abusers, alcoholics, smokers, or are promiscuous. I know a couple dozen. Aside from two of them that might drink a little too often, none have any of these issues, so your generalizations are garbage. Also, it would not be too surprising if there there were a higher incidence of psychological/social issues in an oppressed group compared to the general population. Why do you think being gay is the reason?
As for invoking the Bible, I don’t see how it’s possible to (a) believe the Bible, as (translated/interpreted by some) is the inerrant word of God and (b) still follow Christianity, as I paraphrase one of the principal messages of Christ as “treat others as you would like to be treated.”
Peace,
Randy
Randy,
Regarding the roughly first half to 2/3 of your post, I addressed many of your concerns already in my previous posts. I won’t repeat myself.
I am amazed at your ability to foresee what sources I have read and know what they are so that you can so easily refute their credibility. Unfortunately, I do not share your apparent gift to read minds, so I cannot intelligently tell you if they are biased are not. I also find it hard to believe that straights hold the market on bias. Furthermore, even within interpretation of research data, bias also exists. But I am not a doctor, a shrink or a scientist, nor have I ever played one on TV, so I rely on the findings of those who are and I let the chips fall where they may. I can, however, tell you that I have read such scientific findings from practitioners within the medical/psychological community, and yes, I do believe what I have read. I also can’t help but wonder by what standard you have deemed your sources to be so concretely impeccable.
As far as what you have observed from the folks you know, just because you say so does not make it true, but nevertheless, I am willing to accept your cited observations at face value. But your stated collective observations of your couple dozen or so gay friends hardly amount to a scientific poll, either, do they?
In quite a few posts I have read on this blog from various people, I have seen a common thread, and no, this is not a scientific poll, either. But from what I have read here, you folks also collectively tend to cherrypick or manipulate from both science and faith (to the extent that you believe in or don’t impugn the latter) only those select tidbits that, given the right amount of spin, conveniently give the perception of fitting into your desired agenda. I find it less than coincidence that many of you folks have such feelings and beliefs for the Bible and of faith. It’s all part of the same package, isn’t it? I mean it’s kind of tough to simultaneously advocate the gay agenda and not hold such question, suspicion, disdain and/or manipulation of faith and religion. The two in fact are quite contradictory to each other. What I have often very genuinely wondered is, which actually came first, the chicken, or the egg, so to speak?
Sexual relations outside of the banns of marriage and with the opposite sex, as accepted by most cultures for the history of humanity, is by definition both promiscuous and hedonistic. It is also selfish and demeaning to human dignity. Furthermore, you can also trace much of society’s ills of sexually transmitted disease, infidelity, abortions, divorces, unwanted children, abandoned children, broken homes and dysfunctional youth to the breakdown of once revered sexual mores that have been replaced by self gratification, moral depravity, sexual perversion and the obligatory moral relativism that conveniently defines it all as normal, good and wholesome. Now it’s homosexuality and same sex marriage. On another thread, it’s transgenders and cross dressers. People laughed at those who predicted this trend after Lawrence vs, Texas was repealed. Now we know they were right, so then I again ask for them, when are bestiality, pedophilia, polygamy, polyamory and incest next? In short, (some of) society tried your way, Randy. And we saw what it got us. Our bodies are the temples of the Lord and to be used accordingly. As for the teachings of Christ, besides telling us to love our neighbor, He also told us to God’s Commandments, not “suggestions.” That would include the one regarding “adultery.”
You also seem to have dwelled on my statements of acts, and less on my statements of the people who commit those acts. Homosexuals and homosexual acts do not have to be synonymous. I accept the people, not the behavior. And I especially detest the promotion of the behavior, especially upon our young people, be it upfront or with a wink and a nod. It was you who earlier alluded to me that gays don’t choose to be gay. But despite several available avenues of treatment that have proven effective for some gays, as well as the option of choosing celibacy as an acceptance of one’s homosexual condition and as a sacrificial offering to Christ, many gays do have other choices, but they don’t exercise them, do they, Randy?
And getting back to our very impressionable kids, they could still well be enticed into gay behavior with such increased promotion, both active and subtle, of homosexuality. How many kids actually enjoyed the taste of their first beer?
Just curious, I’m spitting in the wind here, aren’t I?
That all aside, I wish you peace as well. Take care.
Doug
Doug,
You said, “Just curious, I’m spitting in the wind here, aren’t I?”
I wouldn’t necessarily say that, but I wondered if I was doing the same thing. I admit that I am not on the fence about what I have expressed here, but I am willing to listen because I want to try to understand where you people are coming from. But since I don’t really know, you may think I’m putting words in your mouth with my interpretation of what you mean.
So when you say you detest homosexual behavior, do you mean two same sex people being in love with each other? You seem to think of the sex, with some obtuse reference to some “long term maladies.” All sex has risks, and I’d rather leave those issues to the consenting partners involved.
I’m not spinning facts and religious beliefs to fit the dreaded “GAY AGENDA,” rather any theories of human behavior should somewhat fit reality. Gay people are just like everybody else except that there sexual orientation is in the minority. Am I supposed to ignore the reality of my own experience in favor of the negative and hateful messages of some self-aggrandizing blowhard like James Dobson?
It’s not clear to me what you’re trying to say about legalizing sodomy, bestiality, etc. You think CT should outlaw gay sex? Are you also going to include straight oral sex. I can easily find christians for you who make the case that the Bible only allows sex for procreation, which wouldn’t go over so well in the US, so I guess hedonism isn’t just limited to gays. Why isn’t FIC taking a stand on non-procreative hedonistic hetero sex? See, it’s you who is cherry-picking. Further, bestiality and pedophilia have nothing to do with marriage, as marriage requires consent between to people, which is not possible in these cases.
If you accept that gay people exist, then it takes a certain amount of arrogance to hold that they can’t be sexually active outside of marriage, and they can’t get married, so to stand up to your ethical code they need to spend their entire lives alone and celibate. Would it be ok with you if gay men married lesbians-that might make it easier to be celibate. On the other hand, if you think gay people can be changed into straight people, please provide your scientific references.
Not to be contrary, but I did enjoy my first taste of beer, still do.
Randy
Randy,
Monogamous sex between the same one man and one woman has few, if any risks.
No, I do not advocate for straight sex outside of marriage, either.
I cannot and do not speak for FIC as to why they do or don’t speak on certain issues. You should address that question to Peter. I would speculate that FIC also opposes recreational sex outside of heterosexual marriage, but isn’t currently discussing it because right now, that is not a currently debated political issue.
I did not claim that gay people can be “changed” into straight people, any more than an alcoholic can be turned into a non-alcoholic, but in both cases, they can sometimes be treated to better deal with their condition. Prior to 1994, the beaten and politicized American Psychiatric Association still allowed its members to treat homosexuals, even long after it capitulated to gay activists and deleted homosexuality as a disorder from its texts in 1973. I have heard of at least 2 or 3 groups that do such counseling. The most prominent one that comes to mind offhand is Exodus International, which is itself run by a former practicing gay man. I would be willing to bet that with a Google search, you could find even a few more such groups.
Actually, several years back, sodomy was illegal in Connecticut. So was adultery. Both charges were criminal misdemeanors before being repealed. Should sodomy still be illegal? Honestly, I don’t know. I personally disapprove of it. Whether it should or should not be a criminal offense, I don’t know offhand. Realistically speaking, it’s obviously next to impossible to detect and enforce. Should oral sex within the banns of traditional marriage be illegal? No. Sex within marriage fulfills two functions: 1.) procreation, as you have already cited, and 2.) an expression of love and strengthening of union. Otherwise? My feeling on that issue is the same as making sodomy illegal. What about two gay men in love? SSM is like adding gas on fire, or, getting back to my previous example, like giving an alcoholic a drink. It’s a long-term cruelty, masquerading as a short tem nicety.
I have heard James Dobson speak, but only on occasion. I am not a regular listener, but I do admire and respect him. He opposes the gay agenda, but I don’t recall him ever sounding hateful, unless you are privy to specific information that I am not. I see such comments tossed about regarding various Christian conservatives by gays on this blog all the time. I can understand that it must be easy to take a lot of this stuff personally. It is a very emotional issue. I get that. Nevertheless, someone who vehemently disagrees with your behavior does not necessarily hate you as a person.
My point to the other behaviors that I cited, as we are already seeing, is that every social/political issue evolves incrementally, and the same sex marriage issue has now further opened the door for other practices, as I mentioned. My libertarian side tends to think no, we should not criminalize some of such personal behavior (for example, pedophilia should absolutely never be allowed fro obvious reasons), however, once the flood gate opens, there is no closing it, until eventually, there are no boundaries and no right and wrong, and whatever feels good is OK to do, to the greater detriment of society, hence my hedging on that question. I suppose my biggest concern is not so much the behavior (in some examples) but where it eventually leads society. Imagine somebody on a diet eating a piece of cake. That piece of cake won’t do too much harm, but the long term effect could be that person later going of his or her diet, because he or she broke a consistent pattern, and then gaining or regaining weight and acquiring serious illness as a result of the weight gain. The piece of cake itself didn’t do all that, but it made it easier to happen.
Doug
Randy,
Post script,
To clarify, you mentioned “your” ethical code (meaning mine). My suggested reference to celibacy as one option for homosexuals is not my code. It is part of God’s code. I simply believe in it. If you do not, then that is an issue that will some day be addressed between He and you. It can also be, as I mentioned, a sacrificial offering of love to Christ, as to carry one’s own cross on Earth for Him, and thus becoming closer to Him through such personal suffering.
Doug
Hello, I’m not going to jump back into the fray here though you know I would love to but there’s nothing to gain by it. I just hope that someday y’all will see and understand that you have many mistaken beliefs about LGBT people and as a result you, albeit unitentionally, bring difficulty and harm into the lives of people who simply don’t deserve it. I hope also that the negative things that I have said may come to pass in the future do not because then all of society will suffer. And lastly for this paragraph anyway, I have never indicated or implied that I believe all Christians are Phelpsian or Al Quedian (I know those aren’t real words) in their thoughts or practices. Christianity at it’s best is a force of truth, justice, love and grace. It’s also a religion practiced by humans who are not infallible.
That said, thank you for all the good wishes and prayers. I still have no idea whether I will be among the few in my dept. who are retained by the company here in Hartford or not. But I do know this, I’m turning 50 this year and I have never been unemployed for more than a couple of weeks and have always walked into the right job when I needed it. Granted, I worked for 1 company 13 years, left for 7 years to pursue spiritual goals, and returned to the same company going on 8 years ago. That was a long way of saying that the One who has guided me this far, including in times where my back was turned against Him, is not going to drop me now. I am at peace over this issue in my life and am actually looking forward to what is coming next. Well, it’s either that or I’m in complete denial of the major crisis that this could be 🙂 As long as I make sure to keep the noise of the world from drowning out the voice I need to hear, I will be fine. Easy to say, harder to do. Take care folks
Dave